CADENCE INTERVIEW

Steve Luceno Interview

Taken and Transcribed

by James Bennington

I first met bassist/composer Steve Luceno while visiting a dear friend and wonderful mentor, the late Bert Wilson. There was a rare appearance by drummer James Zitro (ESP) and I had the good fortune to see Bert and James reunited once again. After all I had learned from Bert it was something special to not only meet Zitro, but to hang with these guys, who by the way, were all about the history and the continuing of this great art form at all costs. More and more, it is the artists who get so little light thrown their way, those who toil away from the spotlight, that not only pique my interest, but leave me with the feeling that their story needs to be told (thank God for Cadence!) and put into and among the stories of those more recognized and supported. Steve Luceno is one such artist and it is a pleasure, and a belated one (after an eight year interim between our first meeting in 2006!), to present this oral history.

 

Cadence: Steve, first off, where you born?

Steve Luceno: I am from the suburbs of New York City, Westchester County…a town called Mamaroneck. I'm sixty years old now, so I was born in '54.

CAD: What's your birthdate?

SL: The 25th of March (1954)

CAD: Do you play other instruments? I wondered if you played piano or...

SL: I only use the piano to learn songs and to compose sometimes, to write songs or to write arrangements. I enjoy playing piano but I don't play it well enough to perform on it. I play string bass and I used to play electric bass a little bit, but as the years went by I just devoted myself to string bass and never really learned much about the electric bass. But I do double on guitar.

CAD: How long have you been playing guitar? Which came 1st, guitar or the bass?

SL: You know they kind of came at the same time… as a team…I started playin' music kind of late…I was sixteen years old before I started playing. And I started playing electric bass and guitar at that point. And by the time I was about twenty…twenty-one I made the switch over to really wanting to play the string bass and from then on string bass really took over.

CAD: Now when you say guitar, are we talking about electric guitar or acoustic, or both?

SL: Well I love playing in the style of like…Barney Kessell and Kenny Burrell and Wes Montgomery, those guys just really, those guys are some of my heroes… musically.

CAD: So do you play guitar gigs?

SL: I do occasionally, I play guitar gigs, not as many as I would like to, and you know because of that I'm not as up on playing it because I don't the chance to play it quite too often…

CAD: Exactly.

SL:…but I practice a lot. And to, you know, to learn songs, actually, I prefer to learn songs on piano or guitar, and then take them to the bass. You can really kind of get into them deeper with the extra harmony I can get, playing the piano or guitar, and then take them to the bass and figure out how I can make it work on a bass for myself and or how am I going to play it with a group.

CAD: That's interesting because the bass is your main musical instrument for expression, and yet you don't compose on it, you compose on guitar and piano…

SL: Well yeah, sometimes I compose on the bass, some songs I'll write from the bass. But actually the main instrument I use for composition is vibes. I have a small vibes kit in the house thats a hand built kind of a kit that a friend of mine built and gave to me, nice guy to do that, and I like to just take one stick and write a melody. You know, just a simple melody that, and then work the harmony and everything…but I find working with the stick helps me really to get a melody that has more rhythmic aspects…and if I work with one stick, I don't get too complicated, I try to write something that isn't specific to an instrument, the problem is if I write something on bass a lot of times it's specific to the bass and it may not work when you spread it out across a whole band.

CAD: You want it to just be plain old music to be interpreted by any and all instruments

SL: Exactly! And I find workin' with the stick helps me to keep it in a nice rhythmic pocket, and I might stay a little simple on my melodies, but as long as they hold up and there's something that I feel can be developed by other musicians…then I'm happy with that.

CAD: OK so does this mean that you are also a drummer? Do you know drum rudiments and stuff?

SL: I only know simple conga patterns, bongo patterns, a little bit of shekere patterns ….and some of the Cuban and Caribbean and African basic, and I'm talking about basic, rudiments…I mean I can't do anything fancy on any of those instruments, but yes, I like to work in African classical rhythms. I like to work in….if I have an idea for a melody, I'll quite often search for a way to make the melody work within a certain clave pattern, or a certain shekere pattern, you know what I mean? I really like those…I like those dance rhythms, I basically love…I do like dance rhythms.

CAD: And you're talking about, of course, World or Traditionally influenced things, not something you're going to hear in a discotheque

SL: Unless it's some really hip disco song that has some cool rudiments going on! (Laughing). Some of that stuff from…if you go into a disco in Brazil maybe you'll hear something different.

CAD: So let me ask you this, what do you feel are the similarities between the bass and the guitar? They almost seem as if they are in the same family…the wood with the strings over it.

SL: Yeah well when you think of it, the guitar is largely a bass clef instrument, that low E is the low E in a bass clef, and the bass is a double bass, it goes down an octave below that, but those low strings on the guitar are bass clef strings….you don't hit the treble clef until you get to the C on the B string, and then you get up into the middle C. And it's wonderful, when I write for guitar I actually write in Grand Staff? because it's easier for me to interpret, I have trouble reading the guitar music where it's all written in treble clef, I'll write it out in Grand Staff? and when you really map it out and take a look at what the guitar can do…it has all the very critical bass clef potential, and then you know you can easily tune your guitar down a little bit and it will retain good tone and you can morph almost into the double bass category….

CAD: Yeah I've heard some guitarists really get into the very low notes…

S: Uh huh, so I think that is why working with the guitar is a fun thing for me, and being able to take it easily to the bass, plus just playing the other instruments , playing a little bit on each of the instruments helps me to understand my place in the band. You know, how I can make the drum sound best, how to make the guitar sound the best, how I can be in there in the pocket, playin' and havin' fun, and makin' everybody feel comfortable with what they want to do….I'd like to play bass in a way that makes the other musicians in the band sound the best they can.

CAD: That's great….

SL: And when you…it doesn't hurt to have two people thinking' that way on the bandstand either….if you have drums and bass working that way together it can be very liberating for everything.

CAD: What is your reason for living in Olympia, Wa. For a guy born in New York, how did you end up there?

SL: I didn't get to Olympian until I was twenty-three. And I sort of wandered and had a nomadic life from the time I was sixteen…for a long…I really

wandered around and when I landed in Olympia I met many people who I felt were really good musicians, who really loved playing and…they invited me to play with them, and that just made me feel great, so I stuck around to do that. And it turned out that a lot of them knew Bert Wilson, Bert was in New York at the time, and we played some of Bert's songs, because they had known Bert in San Francisco…and were friends of his.

CAD: And who were these artists?

SL: Michael Moore, pianist who studied with Ed Kelly, who was an underground famous piano player in the SF and Oakland area, he also studied with Smith Dobson, and those guys were playin' with Bert in the SF Oakland area and Michael Moore was good friends with all of them, and he's from Olympia and he was up here in a band, and so I got to be in a band with Michael and then, through Michael, several other people had met Bert, knew him, and enjoyed his music…. and when we found a couple of years after I got to Olympia in 1977, maybe three years after I arrived I think, Bert was sort of stranded, basically, in a bad situation in upstate New York, and I went and visited him there…

CAD: Did you drive, or fly, or what?

SL: I road the rails! (laughing)

CAD: Cause I've been up there and it's a lot of country,  and it's a lot of time….it takes eight to ten hours to get out of the State if you're comin' from the city.

SL: That's right. Well Bert was stranded in a bad situation up there, he did not have a lot of close friends nearby who could come by and help him with things, or even just visit him and play music with him much less. He couldn't get out of the place he was living, literally, because it was in the middle of winter and the place he was living there was like this whole valley, and the water would melt and run down into his front door and freeze him in! It was awful! And I had to chip the ice away to be able to get in the door and talk to him and visit with him. When I came back to Olympia I told those guys what kind of a situation he was in, and we sent him a plane ticket and said 'Do you want to come to Olympia? It's a little bit better situation.'

Then he got here and liked it…

CAD: So you were the catalyst for Bert Wilson moving to Olympia?

SL: No, I was one of the many people who helped to get him here.

CAD: Yeah, well, you were the messenger that went forth and checked him out.

SL: Right. yeah that's right. And then he came here and it was wonderful, we all began to study with him…and playing music with him at his house…of course his house was always the big jam session house…and the rest of it is, you know, we spent…he was here for living in Olympia  until his death recently, and got married to the woman he loved, made a lot of music, wrote a lot of songs, what a guy.

CAD: Had you been playing with him regularly up until his death?

SL: I played in his band as the bass player… in his performance band, and his rehearsal band from about 1980 to '85, and I'd say I was the rehearsal bass player and then if Chuck Metcalf or, he (Bert) had several other bass players that he worked with, who were, admittedly, way more advanced than I was in those days and they would do the performances and do the albums with him, unless they weren't available and then I got to perform with him also, kind of a second string player and learned a lot by being able to do that and listen to the first string guys and how they did it and what a wonderful thing that was…just great.

CAD: Well when I met you (Bert's home, 2005), on one of my last visits there, you were playing with Bert, a fine pianist?, and ESP recording artist James ZItro…and I remembered Bert telling me, "Oh! Steve Luceno, you should know him…he's Great!" Talk about playing with drummer James Zitro…

SL: Well James came, James was one of those friends of Bert's from way back when and they lived together in that Oakland area,

and they moved to New York together and shared an apartment there in New York, they spent a lot of time developing their own particular way of playing together…they had an unusual connection to each other; they were always understanding where each other were going, and just the two of them playing in a duo was a magic thing, because of how well they could read each other and follow each other, and so when James came to visit a few times I did get to play a few gigs with him (Zitro), and Bert, and they worked with many other bassists and piano players too at the time also. Fred Raulston, and he's a vibes player…wonderful vibes player, was on this particular gig that we played when I first met Jim…I remember when I first met James Zitro, and we did a little tour, and again, it was a great spot for me to be just learning from these people who had been doin' it for longer and had dedicated their lives to it in such a great way. I truly admire their ability to read each others minds, direction wise, in the music. That was what I particularly got from playing with both James and Bert, and there were certain people who could do that with Bert, James was one who could do that very well, they had this magic connection…that has followed, that kind of thing has happened several times, you just, you know, you meet two people who really connect together and then you come in to this conversation that they already have as a musician, as a third of fourth member in a band and I want to, in that situation, be there to enjoy their conversation, and in way, be sure that you're not in the way, you know what I mean? That is the

beautiful thing that's happening, so you want to make that happen even on a more brilliant level, and try to connect with them yourself, of course, on your own conversational level, but you don't want to change things. So, everything is a learning experience, so when I first met James, I was learning his particular….way, his particular way of making the music come to life. That's always so interesting to me, because people are so different in their approaches, you really meet over the course of a lifetime playing music, so many musicians who do things quite differently from each other (laughing)… and as a bass player, a lot of times you're picked up to complete a band, complete a quartet, or a quintet, or whatever, and you need to really focus in and listen to where these people are comin' from…and how you can be there with them.

CAD: Right, even if they're not in the right place, it's still got to somehow work.

SL: Well that's it. It's more important that it works, than it's right! (laughing)

CAD: Talk about some of the people you were playing with before you met Bert Wilson, and others of note that you'd like to mention.

SL: There's a couple of people who probably nobody really knows about, one was a piano player with Harry James' band for twenty years, he played piano and did a lot of the arranging for Harry James' band, and he lived here in Olympia, and his name was Jack Perciful. Jack has passed away, and I miss him terribly…he taught me so much…I had so much fun playing with him. When I first got to Olympia, people told 'Hey there's this guy Jack Perciful…' and I was really kind of settling into being with my string bass rather than guitar or electric bass at that point, and I wanted to know the Standard repertoire of jazz, this is about 1977, and I wanted to know the Cole Porter, George Gershwin, Irving Berlin, etc. repertoire that the quote 'Standard jazz players' would play, and Jack knew 1,000's of songs, and he had a solo job here in Olympia, and I asked him if I could just bring my bass up and sit in with him once in awhile, and he immediately said, 'Yeah baby! bring the bass' (Laughing)

And he taught me these…he was so patient with me, he didn't want to read out of a book, and he didn't want to bring an amplifier into the situation, it was just the bass and me, no music, no music stand, he would play through a song. He would play it almost rubato so I could hear the song and trace along with him, then he'd would say 'OK, and here it is with rhythm.' and we'd kick in. And I went and played with Jack Perciful at his solo job two or three times a week, for two years, and it was the best learning experience I ever had in my life, the best, he was a wonderful teacher and a fantastic swinging' piano player…for those people who do know and have heard of Jack Perciful, they know what I'm talkin' about. He was the real thing, a great guy and a true, gifted musician. That was one guy who I miss a lot, and he and I had many years of playing together. Another person is Joe Baque. And Joe made his career in NYC. He was born in 1922 and he started playin' his first professional gigs in NYC in 1934! So, do the math, and he was twelve years old when he was out there playin' the same clubs that some of the great Harlem stride piano players were playing. And he stayed in NYC doing that, solo piano, and piano with all kinds of people. He also, in his career became a wonderful vibes player, and was asked to be the replacement for Marjorie Hines when she quit George Shearing's band in the '50's, but he couldn't do it because he had just gotten married and had too many commitments, but that's how good…how beautiful a vibes player he became. He has an extraordinary repertoire of nine or ten thousand songs and I'm not exaggerating.

CAD: Is he still living?

SL: He is now 92 years old…no 91, he'll be 92 in February of 2014, and I still do gigs with him and he still carries his electric piano and his electric amplifier to the gig and lights the place up…and he's 91.

CAD: Is this in Olympia?

SL: So that's another guy…and he lives in Olympia. He showed up…he had a job on a cruise ship when he was sixty-five and a woman from Olympia was on the ship and they fell in love and she brought him back here…he's been living here since 1985 or so.

CAD: Sounds like in another country this guy would be a national treasure.

SL: He may not be a national known name treasure, but here in olympia he is a celebrity, I gotta tell ya, and it's wonderful, he deserves to be a celebrity. People love him, not only for his music, but for who he is, and as far as his music goes, he just…he has such a love affair going on with the piano and you can just feel it every time he touches it.

CAD: What was it like to play with James Zitro? What was your impression of that kind of drumming?

SL: Well first of all, I did not get to do too many gigs with him; it was a few rehearsals and a few gigs over the years, but every time the focus that he wanted was the exuberance and joy of playing, that was what really came out from him, he loved to keep those tempos true, and to really get into the exploration of the music and trying to expand it, he was very expansive person in his mindset and his drumming. And he was very supportive and educational too, he would help me out how to interpret, if there was something written down that I couldn't understand, he would explain that to me…but mostly… he liked the freedom of going where you could go together. So he was trying to encourage that same communication he had with Bert, he would like to have that with everybody in the band. He had a special communication with Bert that was obvious.

I'd love to mention John Stowell. If you know John, he's fantastic, one of my favorite guitar players…just fine, and so true to his own concept or his own development. He has always had that. I've known John since he was in early twenties and been listening to him for the whole time, and how he has developed and the things he's added and subtracted from his playing…but John has been for me a wonderful teacher, I did study guitar with him for quite awhile even though I was really focusing on string bass, I just liked the way John could teach me about music, using the guitar, and he's a great teacher but I think just musically, it's mostly about the freedom of interpreting a melody using not only theoretical knowledge, but John was a great for teaching me to use my ear. And to understand what I was hearing inside my head. to be able to take that, maybe a passage that you're hearing in order to develop a certain melody or to expand the harmony and take that thing that's in your head and be able to find it and understand it then and be able to use it in any key. He has been fantastic, and still continues to be fantastic. I love going to hear him play and I do get to play with him occasionally. He's got a great band that he's been working with over the years with Jeff Johnson on bass and John Bishop on drums. Absolutely fantastic! Wonderful. I did definitely want to mention John Stowell as a very inspirational person for me. As a matter of fact, when I first studied with John in Dobbs Ferry, New York, he and David Freisen were sharing an apartment together and David used to play bass at my lessons, I would have my guitar, John would have his guitar, and  Dave would come out and play bass during the lesson with us, and that was one of the reasons why I knew I was really going to focus on becoming a string bass player, but I wanted to continue my studies with John because he had such a great way of explaining and elaborating and expressing just musical concepts, even though I was studying on guitar, I could get all the musical information from him and then take it and try it out on my bass.

CAD: Did he ever play loud? Because he is an electric guitar player, but he always seemed to keep a softer approach…

SL: Yeah he always uses two speakers now, and spreads his sound in a stereo across a stage, and you can definitely hear him. And I do know what you mean, back in the '70's and when I first heard John and first was studying with him and first listening to him, it was a quieter approach and through the years he has changed his approach a little bit in that, yes, his sound is more present…volume, there's more volume to it, yeah.

CAD: Did John Stowell and Bert (Wilson) play together? Because, Bert could blow you right out of the room with his power and his approach…

SL: Yes they did play together. The connection goes all the way back to John's teacher who was Link Chamberlain in Connecticut. Now John was one of Links main students. Link was the most sought after teacher, and an underground hero in the Connecticut Tri State, area… Jersey, Connecticut, New York in the late sixties, early seventies, he died young unfortunately…he was a very unusual guitar player…there are a couple of albums out, I don't know if they've been reissued on cd or not, they were on vinyl. But Bert and Link were buddies, Bert used to go and play with Link and Bob Meyer, the drummer, and he used to play with him in that area and was one of the drummers Link liked to use, and Link had a steady gig at a place called Rapson's in Connecticut and I guess what I'm trying to say is the connection between John and Bert was drawn almost before they met or knew about each other because Link used to send John Stowell as his sub on gigs that he could not make.

CAD: What years are we talking about?

SL: We're talking 1972 to about 1976…right around there, early to mid seventies. And so Bert and Link had this this special connection and Link was you know a million notes, he did not play like John, but he used to send John as his sub and I almost used to think they were the antithesis to each other….Link would play just so many notes, and so fast, that you didn't think it was possible.

CAD: Is this a la' Charlie Parker?

SL: No, a la' …you know, it was much more modern, he played a very modern style…you know it's almost like the guitar version of 'sheets of sound' that would be one way to describe it.

CAD: Did you ever get a chance to play or study with him?

SL: Oh I never got to play with Link, no I used to go listen to Link and was influenced by him. Link was John Stowell's teacher and I was studying with John…and Link's list was so tight, it was really tough to get a spot in on Link Chamberlain's list, he would send students to John.

CAD: So at that time what were the other musicians playing to accompany this 'sheets of sound'?

SL: A lot of them were playing sheets of sounds too (laughing). The drummers were Bob Meyer and Bob Leonard, and Bob Moses…all the Bob's, how do you like that (laughing)… and bass player was Lynn Christy quite often, there quite often never a keyboard player, but there would be different horn players, Dave Leibman was one…and I'm sorry…it'll come to me. I'm telling a long story here but, in answer to your question, yes, John Stowell and Bert Wilson have played together many times here in Olympia at Bert's house concerts, they played other gigs in Portland together, recordings, and yes they did wind up playing together. When I was playing in Bert's band I was not the first call bass player I was available for rehearsals and glad to do them, and we did many gigs together where he hired me for the gigs. But, you know, when Chuck Metcalf was available or Jeff Johnson or Hein Van Der Gine…for God's sake he had Gary Peacock in, so I would be able to go…the advantage of being number two is getting to listen to number one. And also I think its taken me a long time in my life to learn not take that (rejection) personally, you know, hopefully the news is delivered the news in a way thats easy to accept…and its a big wide musical world out there and some moments are going to be learning experience…some you might not like yourself, you might wind up getting hired on a gig and find yourself saying 'I'm not really digging what's going on here, but you still have to bring your 'I'm gonna make this as good as I can make it' cap, you know, it's an obligation.

CAD: It is an obligation. So that leads me to the next few questions: Do you have an end goal with your instrument and what you've been striving for? What have been striving for or aspiring to?… and also what would you give to an aspiring person who sees you playing for instance, no matter the age, who expresses interest in your instrument even with wanting to take lessons and play themselves.

SL: It's a two part question, so what I'm aspiring for is, something you mentioned is a big part of it, and you're talking about power and being able to be present when there is volume going on, that is something that I want to have. I aspire to have a sound that will be present and sound like an acoustic instrument and that is a very challenging thing I've found over the years…to that end, I took apart a couple of string basses that were broken and rebuilt them in a special way that I thought would give them more presence, and I actually have a bass that I play right now, which is a very difficult instrument to play because of the way I have it set up, but it has a presence, it has a sound. And so I'm aspiring to be able to be in control of a really delicate sound that can be also be loud and very present, which will allow the band to play at their appropriate levels…I'd like to play in a band where the dynamics do go very soft sometimes so that I can play with an acoustic effect, but, when it does kick, I want to be able to kick with the band on the string bass, and that means understanding how to use the instrument electronically, and so that's my main goal: To be able to follow…to be able to participate in any dynamic level. To clarify: I want to retain and acoustic sound, and still be able to be heard and felt when the band the band is playing loud passages.

CAD: And when you say electronically, what do you mean exactly?

SL: Knowing how and when (to use the amp) and being in control of that…because I think the dynamics of bands that I play with nowadays, some of the bands don't have the pianissimo end of the dynamics, and some of the bands have dynamics, the better bands that I play with, have the dynamics that go from very quiet to extremely loud… and everywhere in between and that there's nothing to…so now, lately, in the last couple of years…I actually dissected a couple of instruments to find out what it is that can make the instrument more functional in that wide range of dynamics, because it's always been a problem because, like you said, you see the bass player working, but you don't hear him working, and so now I think I'm starting to crack that nut with my experimentation with pickup placement, and spreading the sound out across the stage using two speakers…and also sometimes sacrificing, I'll have to sacrifice something, you always have to give up something up to get something else, I have basses that are very easy to play, but they don't have a lot of guts, so they come out sounding… acoustic guts…so they come out sounding electric all the time, and in order to change that I actually have had to give up some of the ease of the setup of the bass and go back to some of the really harder, like a steel string, which is like a bridge cable compared to a nickel string (laughing), a steel string with a little bit higher action, and I can get a very powerful sound; I can't play it as a fast and I can't play it as fancy, because it doesn't work, you know, it resists so much…

CAD: And we are talking about acoustic bass...

SL: String bass… but with steel strings, and high tension. And some people might think I'm crazy, but I sacrifice speed and the ease of playing in the high positions, for the sound of being able to play strong in the low positions, and by that I mean not play strong, but have a strong sound, because you can strong on some basses and still not have a strong sound because of the way the bass is set up. It's a very strange thing. That's the first part of the question and the second part, was what to tell somebody who might enjoy what I'm doing, what to do to get there…and I think that is kind of an easy question: that's to Listen, you gotta listen, you have to listen to everyone  you're playing with, every record you have you have to listen deep, you have to listen hard, and in the moment…when you're playing in a Jazz band, if you aren't really listening to what everybody else is doing, you can't possibly be a part of it; you have to always be listening and able to interpret what you're hearing, knowing that when you're hearing something, you interpret it, and you know where to find the appropriate accompaniment on your bass…but that comes from listening.

CAD: So with all this work that you've done with all these various people, you say what you are striving for is what? What is this goal at the end of this career that you've chosen for yourself as a professional bass player?

SL: There are several goals I guess. My best answer is, some things are…I'll say musically, my goal is to have a good sound that the people who I'm playing with find supports them, supports them well, and makes them feel freer to be able to do what they do. And that means that I play with a lot of different players, young and old, you know, people who play more traditionally, people who play more avant-garde, and that means being able to be legitimately with them, enjoying what they're doing. And the big goal is that I would really like to have the music be a…to use the music in a way that allows people to enjoy a moment of life, because there's so many moments of life that aren't enjoyable… that are struggle, strife riven, and hard, and there a lot of hard things about life. There just are. And if the music can bring moments of beauty into the world, That's it! That's my goal.

CAD: And it sounds like advice too…'if you want to bring some beauty and love into the world, get with an instrument and make some music'.

SL:  That's it. Yeah.

CAD: Now are there recordings that you've been on that you would like to talk about?

SL: I've recorded three albums of my own originals. I've been writing music music all along and I've had the opportunity to record these three…and I'm working on a fourth one right now, and I'd love to know what you thought of them, that would be terrific to send them to you…

CAD: What is the label they're on?

SL: They're home grown products that I sell at gigs, and there is no label, it's just I did have them mass produced, the first two of them, so I still have quite a few of those, and the third album I didn't mass produce, I just have it where it exists in a master form and then as I need copies, I  make my own copies, and I made my own cover for it. After the first two were, let's put it this way, it just was expensive to produce those first two albums and the return on it is minimal, because I mostly give them away or sell them at gigs, or use them for promo. So the third album I've gone more of a homegrown route, but it's actually my favorite of the three of them, and the fourth one we're doing the same thing… 'Luigi LaCross' will probably be out sometime next year (TBR May 2015). 'Luigi LaCross' is a quartet I formed in the summer of 2012. Our main focus has been to work on original music. Our first release as a group, is being 'pressed' right now…there are nine tunes written by the players: John Croarkin, flute, bass flute, alto sax, soprano sax, Drew Gibbs, piano and drums, Phil Lawson, guitar, Steve Luceno, bass. We were lucky to have an exciting guest vocalist, Lizzy Boyer, who can be heard on two of the songs. The Cd has a very wide dynamic and emotional range, and I think it is a colorful set of music with peaks and valleys and some unexpected turns.

CAD: What's the instrumentation on these records?

SL: The first record is mostly trumpet and alto saxophone with an electric piano, string bass, and drums rhythm section. And the second album is expanded out a little bit with a trumpet alto sax ten sax and bari sax, so bigger horn section and then some of the guys doubled on flute also…'Get Up Blues' and 'Constant Conversation', which is a kind of double entendre, you'll see what it means when you open and read the poem that's entitled 'Constant Conversation', it's funny because being a bass player everybody says 'well you want to get a conversation going just a get get a bass solo rolling and the audience is bound to start talking' (laughs), and the third one is called 'Strawberry Kiss'…the fourth album is untitled and is called 'Luigi LaCross' and I'd love for you to hear them and to hear your thoughts.

CAD: And these are to be found on…where we can send people interested in your music?

SL: I have such a minimal presence, it might be a terrible thing, I don't have a website, I don't have a computer, I live off in the country, and I'm sort of 'off line' if you will…in order to buy a record from me you could call me and I'll mail a CD to you, or come to to one of my gigs, I always have CD's at my gigs…

CAD: Does Cadence have permission to print your address/ phone number then?

SL: That would be absolutely fantastic, I would love that.

CAD: Are these are all your own compositions?

SL: They are all my own compositions and arrangements yeah.

CAD: What has been up with you since Bert Wilson's passing?

SL: We're trying to keep the jam sessions going on at Bert's house, so that's one thing we've been doing…which is really nice…Bert used to have at least two sessions a week, usually one session geared more towards bebop and standard jazz playing and another session geared towards playing Bert's original music. And so those sessions are continuing, they've been a little hit and miss, but we're working' on keepin' em' up enough so that…first of all we still want to keep Bert's music in our ears…the band that Bert had together when he died is wonderful band and they're still hangin' together and they are still rehearsing and they are doing some shows out. Bert's parts have been played in concert with Rebirth by Dan Blunck and Jim Pribbenow, both fantastic saxophonists. So we're trying to keep that music alive and keep the spirit alive. And of course, Nancy, Bert's wife, is still living in the house where they lived together, and so she's there for the sessions playing flute and sometimes baritone saxophone. As for myself, it's a lot more of the same…I play a variety of gigs, I play some gigs that are very straight ahead, and I enjoy those, and I play some gigs where I'm playing solo, I play guitar and sing, and then other gigs where it's maybe one of my friends has a concert playing all his original music, and so we work real hard learning each others originals, that is still happening…the pursuit of the beauty is all still there…Bert helped us all to learn to pursue that beauty, it was what kept him alive for all those years…the physical challenges that seemed to be insurmountable, and he would get over those challenges and the big part of that was his love for music and playing music, so we're just keeping' that goin'.

CAD: Yeah, he always seemed to make me feel that I had no excuse…

SL: That's right! That's right! (Laughing)

CAD: I thought I had the Blues…

SL: There are others I would like to mention that I have had a chance to play with, over the last year to play with some traveling visiting Cuban musicians…Pablo Menedez band called 'LaMescla', an absolutely beautiful band featuring two horns, a trumpet and saxophone, a drummer, and a wonderful Santa Ria Priest (their percussionist), a master who knows all the Cuban musical traditions. Their bass player and drummer could not make the gig, so we played at Jazz Alley in Seattle for two nights. I had such a fantastic time, so I definitely wanted to mention Pablo Menendez.

CAD: And that's still one of the big places to play in America.

SL: Yeah, we talked about sound and this was wonderful because their sound guy, Fausto, he is a maestro and he made that gig so easy for me, he just dialed in a beautiful sound off my bass it made the gig totally enjoyable. But it was a very difficult gig because Cuban music is a study all unto itself, and I learned…a whole lot. And I think they were happy with me as a replacement player, I know I had the time of my life playing with them and it was a spiritual experience.

CAD: Speaking of traveling musicians…do you travel much?

SL: I try to stay pretty close to home these days. I did travel earlier in my career. I actually made trips to Canada and Mexico, and California. But I stay closer to home these days, and I like my gardening…and I live a little bit of a backward lifestyle because I don't have a lot of things like TV or DVD and computer and if I want to really get up on something I have to go seek it out at the library, or go out into the world and find it….and I don't travel around a lot, but I get plenty of opportunity to play, and there are so many good Olympia musicians…and the thing about being a rhythm section player that makes me feel very lucky, is leaders will hire me and each leader has their own idea of what they want to do and it can be very different from one gig to the next, so I get a nice variety right here within sixty miles from my home, between Portland and Seattle, there's plenty going on.

CAD: So you are going there and playing?

SL: Yeah, I mean that's not the kind of traveling a lot of guys do where they go to Europe and New York…

CAD: How is the financial situation for you…do you teach?

SL: I've always supplemented my income with day jobs…I've always some kind of day job….sometimes it's just menial labor, a grunt on a construction site, or driving a fork lift in a warehouse, climbin' up somebody's tree and taking it down for them, sweeping their roofs and cleaning the gutters, I supplement my income that way.

CAD: Have you ever taught?

SL: The odd thing is, I've learned….I ran into trouble with teaching…because I learned in a different way. I learned mostly by ear and by playing, rather than by reading music out of a book or anything. And so I am one of those players, I still don't read well, I never did learn to sight read. I learned to write music because it's at a different pace, so I could write anything out, but sight reading is a different thing, and a lot of the teaching nowadays seems to require the ability to teach sight reading. I've had a couple of good students…if I find a person who really wants to know what's going on with it, I'll start exchanging music with them, and talking about this and that, or we'll sit down and just listen to a few recordings together and then maybe play together…but I don't really do it for money, if I find somebody who's really interested in learning I will spend time with them, just to get them going in a certain way.

CAD: So a person sees you perform and says 'Man I want to do that!' What do you have to say to them?

SL: The music is available to you. There are people around you who do know music. Get together with those people. Play music. Listen. Keep listening and listening and listening. If you don't like a certain album and you can't understand it, listen to it ten times over (laughing) and tell me then, once you've listened to it and tried to absorb some of it…just keep listening…you have to keep expanding your ears and listening and giving everything a chance, even things you don't like at the first taste, you gotta give them a chance and try them. And also you have to seek out people to play music with. Unless you are a solo artist..a solo piano player, or a solo guitar player, you're a storyteller and you do your stuff alone and you feel very comfortable doing that, if that's not true, you need to seek out people to play music with, and they're there, they're out there all over the world, music is a universal human desire…everywhere in the world people desire and love music, it's there, it's there for you, you need to reach out and find it.

 

Cadence Magazine Copyright 2015. All Rights Reserved. April 2015 Edition.

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